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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTranscript_SLOPD FN2020-0025 Lira ETHERTON San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 1 FN2020-0025 TRANSCRIPT OF 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 WITNESS INTERVIEW OF OFFICER BLAKE ETHERTON BY 8 LIEUTENANT JOHN VILLANTI 9 FN2020-0025 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DATE OF TRANSCRIPTION: OCTOBER 2ND, 2021 19 TRANSCRIPT PROVIDED BY: SAN LUIS OBISPO POLICE DEPARTMENT 20 21 22 23 PADDY KARP 24 25 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 2 FN2020-0025 Lt. John Villanti: All right. Good morning. It is September 15th, 10:47. Lt. John 1 Villanti, I’m in the HR Conference Room at 990 Palm with Sgt. Schafer, and Ofc. Blake 2 Etherton, and his attorney Robert Bauman. We’ll be doing -- questioning Blake for IA 3 FN2020-0025. This is the event that occurred up in Paso Robles with Mason Lira. 4 This is a personnel investigation, Blake, and as such, you do not have the right 5 to refuse to answer; the truth is expected as you -- the truth is expected as is your entire 6 knowledge related to this investigation. Any failure to respond may be grounds for punitive 7 action. No promise or reward will be made as an inducement for the answer to any questions. 8 You may record any portion of this interview or have access to the Department’s tape, which 9 is audio file, if any further proceedings are needed and prior to any subsequent interview. 10 Any statement you make during a personnel investigation interview cannot be used against 11 you if subsequent criminal procedures are initiated unless you have first waived your rights to 12 remain silent under Miranda guidelines. You have the right to be represented by an 13 individual of your choice, which Robert is here today representing you. Your representative 14 may assist you as appropriate, however, they may not interfere with or obstruct the orderly 15 process of the interview. You have the right to take a break at any time during this interview. 16 Just let me know if you want to and we’ll finish the question and take a break and then we’ll 17 resume. Do you understand? 18 Ofc. Blake Etherton: I do. 19 Lt. Villanti: Do you have any questions so far? 20 Ofc. Etherton: No. 21 Lt. Villanti: The nature of this investigation is such that one or more officers may be 22 in jeopardy of facing criminal charges. Because you acted in your official capacity as a police 23 officer of the San Luis Obispo Police Department in this incident, you may be subject to some 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 3 FN2020-0025 form of legal action in the future. To protect your rights against self-incrimination, I must 1 advise you of your constitutional rights. 2 You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you 3 in the court of law. You have a right to talk to your lawyer and have him or her present while 4 you are being questioned. If you cannot afford to hire an attorney, one will be appointed to 5 represent you before questioning if you wish. Do you understand these rights? 6 Ofc. Etherton: I do. 7 Lt. Villanti: Do you wish to speak to me? 8 Ofc. Etherton: No, I do not. 9 Lt. Villanti: You are now ordered to speak to me since you waived your Miranda 10 Rights as an employee of this department and answer all these questions that I have for you 11 and give a full, detailed, and complete statement regarding your knowledge or involvement in 12 the matter under investigation. Although you have a right to silence in a criminal 13 investigation, this is not a criminal investigation, but an administrative hearing, and you are 14 now being ordered to answer all questions. Under the compulsion or the threat of disciplinary 15 action and having been so ordered, any statements that you make cannot be used against you 16 in the criminal proceedings. If you fail to comply with this order, you may be dismissed from 17 your employment with this agency on the grounds of willful disobedience of insubordination.18 Assuming that you now comply with this order and cooperate fully in this 19 investigation in your statements and any evidence obtained through such statements will be 20 used as to your -- solely to determine whether department disciplinary action is necessary. 21 False statements, of course, will result in severe disciplinary action. Do you understand that? 22 Ofc. Etherton: I do. 23 Lt. Villanti: Okay. If you are willing to proceed further, if you could sign and, I 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 4 FN2020-0025 think, date, and then have, of course, your representative do the same. And do you guys have 1 any written statements that you want to turn in and submit to me? 2 Ofc. Etherton: No. 3 Lt. Villanti: All right. Then we’ll move forward and jump right into the questions. 4 Do you recall being involved in a SWAT call out for the search of Mason Lira, which 5 occurred on June 10th through June 11th, 2020 in Paso Robles? 6 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, I do. 7 Lt. Villanti: Have you had the opportunity to read your interview, which occurred on 8 July 7th, 2020 at 1308 hours with SLO detectives? 9 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, I have. 10 Lt. Villanti: Is this incident fresh in your recollection? 11 Ofc. Etherton: As fresh as it can be. 12 Lt. Villanti: Did you review any body worn camera or video, or any of the reports 13 related to this? 14 Ofc. Etherton: I did. 15 Lt. Villanti: And what was that? 16 Ofc. Etherton: I have the public copy from the Sheriff’s Department of the Mason 17 Lira report. 18 Lt. Villanti: Okay. How long have you been a law enforcement officer? 19 Ofc. Etherton: I’ve been in law enforcement since July of 2012. 20 Lt. Villanti: And what agencies have you worked for? 21 Ofc. Etherton: Riverside County Sheriff’s Department and the City of San Luis 22 Obispo. 23 Lt. Villanti: And how many years have you worked for San Luis Obispo? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 5 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: I’ve worked with us since 2014, seven years. 1 Lt. Villanti: And in your time as a law enforcement officer, what special assignments 2 or ancillary positions have you had? 3 Ofc. Etherton: I have been a field training officer, firearms instructor, an active 4 shooter instructor. I have been assigned to the SWAT team. I have been a -- on the SWAT 5 team training team as well. I’ve been assigned to the downtown bike position as well. 6 Lt. Villanti: Since this incident that we’re referencing, 2020, the June 10th to 11th, 7 2020 incident, have you spoke to anyone involved in this case? 8 Ofc. Etherton: No. 9 Lt. Villanti: What I’d like to do right now is just direct our focus on the time frame 10 just before Mason Lira was shot. So not necessarily June 10th, but really June 11th. I think it 11 was around two in the afternoon-ish. 12 Ofc. Etherton: That sounds about right. 13 Lt. Villanti: So that’s the time frame that we’re going to be focusing on. During that 14 time frame or, you know, an hour or so before, what was the overall mission of that -- of your 15 operation? 16 Ofc. Etherton: Our mission was to safely bring Mason Lira into custody. 17 Lt. Villanti: And at that time, what was your assignment? 18 Ofc. Etherton: I was assigned to the SWAT team. I was on the green team in the 19 fourth position. 20 Lt. Villanti: So the San Luis Obispo Regional Team? I mean, is that -- 21 Sgt. Aaron Schafer: Excuse me, what’s position four? 22 Ofc. Etherton: It’s the intel position. 23 Lt. Villanti: And is that your normal assignment for this team? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 6 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, it is. 1 Lt. Villanti: Who were you with? 2 Ofc. Etherton: I was with Juan Leon, Greg Benson, Caleb Kemp, Marcelo Magaña, 3 Tim Ramirez, Joe -- I don’t remember Joe’s last name. 4 Lt. Villanti: Leonard? 5 Ofc. Etherton: No -- well, Joe Leonard was there as well, but there was another Paso 6 -- 7 Lt. Villanti: Another Joe? 8 Ofc. Etherton: -- another Paso Joe. 9 Sgt. Schafer: (Inaudible) what city is he from? 10 Ofc. Etherton: He’s from Paso Robles. 11 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. Paso Joe, is that Leonard? 12 Ofc. Etherton: No, that’s not Paso Joe. Paso Joe is Joe Leonard. 13 Sgt. Schafer: There’s another Joe? 14 Ofc. Etherton: We have another Joe. 15 Sgt. Schafer: (Inaudible.) 16 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 17 Ofc. Etherton: Very tall, bald-headed. He was -- 18 Lt. Villanti: He’s on the SWAT team, though? 19 Ofc. Etherton: He’s the one that had the -- he is. He’s the one that had the body cam 20 video of the incident. 21 Sgt. Schafer: You haven’t reviewed that body cam at all? 22 Ofc. Etherton: I’ve seen that body cam. Yes. 23 Sgt. Schafer: Okay. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 7 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: And then Ofc. Bywater was with us. Neil Clayton from -- at the -- 1 right around the time of the shooting, anyways, he ended up being with us. The same with 2 Sgt. Leonard, and then also Shawn Bishop was with us as well. Ted Lenhoff from the SO, 3 and then I’m not sure of some of the other people that were there. There was possibly a 4 couple Fish and Game employees, and another deputy. I didn’t know who they were at the 5 time. 6 Sgt. Schafer: I’ve gotten a little confused. These are the people that are in your 7 general vicinity that are around you, or is this all -- 8 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. They weren’t part of our team. 9 Sgt. Schafer: Okay. 10 Ofc. Etherton: That was just some of the people that were with us. As far as our 11 team, it was just Juan Leon, Greg Benson, Caleb Kemp, myself, not Joe Leonard. It’s, like, 12 Joe Ramirez or something like that, Hernandez or -- I’m not sure. And then Time Ramirez 13 from AG, Marcelo Magaña, and Ofc. Bywater. Everyone else showed up to our position. 14 Sgt. Schafer: Within, like let’s say, they were all within 50 yards of you? Closer 15 than that, or more tight than that? 16 Ofc. Etherton: It was -- it started off tight. We all ended up at the bearcat helm, 17 around the bearcat. We were all close and then as time went on people separated and their 18 distances. 19 Sgt. Schafer: Okay. 20 Lt. Villanti: So you deploy with the bearcat, with that team. 21 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 22 Lt. Villanti: And then those other folks just show up; is that what happened? 23 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 8 FN2020-0025 Lt. Villanti: Okay. But they weren’t part of your team mission necessarily, they 1 were just deployed to that area? 2 Ofc. Etherton: I believe they self-deployed to the area. 3 Lt. Villanti: Okay. What was your uniform? 4 Ofc. Etherton: I was wearing all our SWAT issued TRU-SPEC black camo uniform 5 with the San Luis Obispo Regional SWAT Team identifying marks on my shoulder patches, 6 and police identifying marks on my vest on the front and back. 7 Lt. Villanti: And who was the team leader? 8 Ofc. Etherton: That would be Sgt. Kemp. 9 Lt. Villanti: And that training and experience that you spoke of earlier, was any of 10 that applicable to this mission? 11 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 12 Lt. Villanti: What training would you say would be applicable? 13 Ofc. Etherton: I would say all of the firearms experience and training that I had 14 leading up to it, especially as a firearms instructor in active shooter instructor schools and 15 SWAT school itself. Many of -- most of the shooting scenarios that we did mirrored a lot of 16 things that happened that day while shooting as a team and trying to bring someone into 17 custody and -- there were countless scenarios from them. 18 Lt. Villanti: Did your team have a plan or discussion on how to proceed and -- I 19 mean, you talked about you had an overall mission, but what was the overall mission? 20 Ofc. Etherton: Our overall mission was to bring Mason Lira into custody as safely as 21 possible. 22 Lt. Villanti: Just generically, like, drive around and look for this guy; is that what 23 you were doing? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 9 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: At the time, we didn’t know where he was at, and so we -- were sent 1 from one location to another location to search as intel was given from the command post to 2 our team leader. And so based on the information that we were receiving, we were going to 3 different locations attempting to look for him. I know that our command staff had come up 4 with a scenario that we were getting ready to implement before Sgt. Mike Smiley was shot. 5 Lt. Villanti: Okay. So -- 6 Sgt. Schafer: Sorry, go ahead. 7 Lt. Villanti: No. Go ahead. 8 Sgt. Schafer: I was just going to ask, did you guys replace Mike Smiley’s team, did 9 that -- 10 Ofc. Etherton: No, we did not. 11 Sgt. Schafer: Okay. 12 Ofc. Etherton: That was the Sheriff’s -- part of the Sheriff’s SED team. They were 13 receiving phone calls from their command staff and self-deploying themselves into our active 14 scene. 15 Lt. Villanti: So really the overall mission was to search for -- 16 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 17 Lt. Villanti: Fluidly. Like, this thing was changing, this guy is not in a set location, 18 you’re just actively out searching as a team with the bearcat? 19 Ofc. Etherton: That’s right. Yes. Yes. 20 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 21 Sgt. Schafer: Was there any intel that -- where he was at that point? Let’s say a few 22 minutes before the shooting? 23 Ofc. Etherton: A few minutes before the shooting there was some intel that was 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 10 FN2020-0025 passed to the blue team, which would be Mike Smiley’s team, that someone may have seen 1 him in the river bed somewhere near their location. But the location that they had thought 2 they had seen him was in a different direction than where he was ultimately found. 3 Lt. Villanti: So very fluid, a lot of stuff, a lot of intel coming in? 4 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, lots of intel coming in. Lots of -- 5 Lt. Villanti: Confusion? 6 Ofc. Etherton: Lots of confusion, lots of people in the area that looked like our 7 suspect that was contacted multiple times, that was not -- escorted out of the area, there was 8 one homeless person, I believe, that was contacted three times right on the 101. 9 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 10 Ofc. Etherton: The area of Ramada or something like that. 11 Lt. Villanti: And then as part of your guys’ plan or mission, was anybody assigned 12 lethal and less lethal coverage? 13 Ofc. Etherton: There was no one that was specifically assigned lethal because our 14 team believes in a philosophy that anyone can make a decision, whether it be lethal or non-15 lethal. I would say everyone was capable of lethal that day because we all have lethal 16 weapons, but everyone was also capable of non-lethal as well because we have numerous 17 non-lethal options, but we do have a non-lethal position and that would be Reggie Bio. 18 Lt. Villanti: And he was there with you? 19 Ofc. Etherton: He was there that day. Yes. 20 Lt. Villanti: And was he carrying the standard -- or his general equipment that he 21 normally would for the non-lethal deployment, whatever that may be? 22 Ofc. Etherton: I don’t know what he was carrying, I would assume -- 23 Lt. Villanti: Sometimes they’re assigned a 40, right, millimeter or a pepper ball or -- 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 11 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. I know he had a 40 with him or in the general area. 1 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 2 Ofc. Etherton: I don’t know whether he was holding it or not. 3 Lt. Villanti: Gotcha. But it -- at minimum, it probably would have been in the 4 bearcat? 5 Ofc. Etherton: At minimum, yes. 6 Lt. Villanti: And do you guys have spotters? 7 Ofc. Etherton: No, we do not have spotters. Typically, the snipers unit operates 8 independently from us, and while I’m not trained in their techniques, I do believe they usually 9 have a spotter with them. 10 Lt. Villanti: Were they deployed in your area, the snipers? 11 Ofc. Etherton: So Sgt. Bishop was a sniper, and Sgt. Leonard -- So Sgt. Bishop 12 works for Cal Poly, and Sgt. Leonard works for Paso Robles. They were part of this group 13 that came up to us. I don’t know if they started off together. I don’t know how they linked 14 up. I don’t -- I just know that they showed up, and they both had their rifles with them with 15 magnified scopes. We were trying to use them to get as much intel as possible. Our sniper 16 team usually is more intel driven for the team so we can see what’s happening while we’re in 17 a further distance. 18 Lt. Villanti: But you didn’t have a sniper assigned to your blue team? 19 Ofc. Etherton: The green team? No. 20 Lt. Villanti: Oh, green team, pardon me. 21 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. 22 Lt. Villanti: Blue was the one that Smiley was with? 23 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 12 FN2020-0025 Lt. Villanti: Gotcha. Can you describe the location that you guys were deployed in? 1 Ofc. Etherton: The final scene location? 2 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. So you guys -- right before Mason Lira was shot -- 3 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 4 Lt. Villanti: -- what does that scene look like? 5 Ofc. Etherton: So there is a construction yard and it looks like a cement yard. It had 6 lots of workers and employees that were in the area, most of which had left or were still 7 nearby. I had no idea where they were going, but I know as we were proceeding there, there 8 were people that were leaving and people that were hiding in place. But a lot of rocks, and a 9 lot of DG, a lot of elevated positions. We went into the most northeast corner of what I 10 believe was their property line. At the northeast corner there was an oak tree that was fairly 11 open that we could see down into, and then a little berm on what would be the east side of our 12 bearcat that most of the team took up right there. And then there was another portion of the 13 team that was on the backside of the bearcat looking into the vineyard, which the vineyard 14 faced north. The vineyard was, I don’t know, 50 feet or so elevation drop from our location 15 with rolling hills. And then there was -- as you went along that norther perimeter more DG 16 that was probably 100 yards away from us but kind of, like -- it kind of curved a little bit so it 17 wasn’t directly behind us so we wouldn’t be in line. 18 So our team, we had Sgt. Bishop was up in the turret with his rifle, his -- 19 Lt. Villanti: So he self-deploys to your team and then gets in the bearcat? 20 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 21 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 22 Ofc. Etherton: I believe he was told to get in there, but I’m not entirely -- 23 Lt. Villanti: Or whatever, but he didn’t start originally with you; right? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 13 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, that’s correct. 1 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 2 Ofc. Etherton: He did not originally start with us. I think him and Joe Leonard were 3 actually working as an element together, and based on everyone else that came forward, they 4 kind of linked up with those other people that were clearing -- whatever they were doing, they 5 were clearing things. And then they ended up by us. So Bishop was up in the turret. Most of 6 the team was up on this berm in front of us onto the other side of the bearcat. And then you 7 had Joe Leonard up on the rocks behind our team in a slightly elevated position with Joshua 8 Bywater. So they were originally looking east into the river bed because the blue team’s 9 bearcat was not where it -- where they were at when we showed up was a different location 10 than when we were finished. All the intel that we had was that tree that was in front of us was 11 where the suspect had been, and so we no longer knew where the suspect was. So we were -- 12 of course, I was concerned and I think the team was concerned that the person broke the 13 perimeter. So they were up on that hill. They were looking east into this river bed where we 14 saw lots of officers walking around in plain clothes and what not. And then there was a 15 cement, I don’t know, divider or something like that that was behind our bearcat and on that 16 northern perimeter. And that was, you know, where our bearcat was. And just before the 17 shooting, many of the officers moved from their position over there to that position. 18 Lt. Villanti: Okay. So let me show you this drone footage of the scene, and maybe if 19 you can help me understand, so I think you’re talking about -- it’s upside down right now for 20 me -- 21 Ofc. Etherton: Sure. 22 Lt. Villanti: But there’s your bearcat; right? 23 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. You can -- almost not even see the bearcat. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 14 FN2020-0025 Lt. Villanti: Because you’re underneath the oak tree. 1 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. Yeah. 2 Lt. Villanti: This is the concrete yard you’re speaking of -- 3 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 4 Lt. Villanti: -- where the sniper was on the high ground looking east. 5 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 6 Lt. Villanti: And then this is the rolling vineyard going north -- 7 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 8 Lt. Villanti: -- that you said had elevation change? 9 Ofc. Etherton: It was below us. 10 Lt. Villanti: Oh, so below your grade? 11 Ofc. Etherton: It looked like it was rolling. 12 Lt. Villanti: Okay. So you’re sitting up here? 13 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 14 Lt. Villanti: How low is that do you think? 15 Ofc. Etherton: I would imagine from our point directly below us, it was probably a 16 50-foot elevation change. 17 Lt. Villanti: Oh, okay. 18 Ofc. Etherton: But I mean, I’m not entirely sure. 19 Lt. Villanti: Sure. 20 Ofc. Etherton: It was a long time ago. So -- 21 Lt. Villanti: And then this is -- looks -- is a zoom in a little bit more of that one that 22 shows, I think, the front of the bearcat; right? 23 Ofc. Etherton: It does. Yes. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 15 FN2020-0025 Lt. Villanti: And then it looks like somebody’s here, I don’t know, or bodies are 1 here; right? 2 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. A lot of the team is right about here. Yes. 3 Lt. Villanti: Okay. And then this kind of cuts off where the snipers probably were? 4 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, it does. 5 Lt. Villanti: And then just a little bit of the -- that vineyard. 6 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. 7 Lt. Villanti: And then here’s one that’s panned out a little bit, and I think it’s the 8 same thing; it just shows a little more of the bearcat now, and the team over here, a little more 9 of the vineyard, and then this vehicle, whatever that is. 10 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. I don’t know. 11 Lt. Villanti: I think that’s the -- SO’s M-RAP or whatever they call that thing. 12 Ofc. Etherton: I have no idea whose it was. 13 Lt. Villanti: Oh, okay. 14 Ofc. Etherton: I remembered seeing it later. 15 Lt. Villanti: But you weren’t involved with that vehicle; you guys were just at your 16 bearcat? 17 Ofc. Etherton: Well, that vehicle came past me. So -- 18 Lt. Villanti: Oh, okay. After? 19 Ofc. Etherton: No. Before the shooting. 20 Lt. Villanti: Before the shooting? 21 Ofc. Etherton: So just before the shooting, I was in this position over here, and a lot 22 of this happened -- 23 Lt. Villanti: The setting up, you mean? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 16 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: I don’t know if it -- maybe that was before. I don’t know honestly. 1 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 2 Ofc. Etherton: I remember a brown -- a brown (inaudible) -- 3 Lt. Villanti: And I don’t really -- I’m not too concerned about that -- 4 Sgt. Schafer: (Inaudible) we we’re looking at drone number three. 5 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. 6 Sgt. Schafer: Because you -- you had to come in this way probably. 7 Ofc. Etherton: They -- 8 Sgt. Schafer: I mean, probably loop around (inaudible) eventually. I mean -- 9 Ofc. Etherton: That’s what I -- well, I think they went like this and went that way. 10 So I -- 11 Sgt. Schafer: Yeah. Well because this is where the -- if you look right here -- 12 Ofc. Etherton: Uh-huh. 13 Sgt. Schafer: -- this is where the driveway is going back this way. So back this way? 14 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. So maybe this is a different one than the M-RAP -- 15 Lt. Villanti: Right here? 16 Sgt. Schafer: Yeah. 17 Ofc. Etherton: -- because I thought I saw -- maybe the Santa Barbara bearcat come? 18 Sgt. Schafer: That could’ve been. Yeah. 19 Ofc. Etherton: Because it was tan, whatever vehicle that I saw. So this -- I might be 20 confusing this one with the one that I saw that would be up here on that side -- 21 Lt. Villanti: And that’s fine. I don’t think there was too much relevancy to that. 22 Ofc. Etherton: I’m not sure. Well, I just don’t know. So -- 23 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. Okay. Well that gives me a better understanding of what this 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 17 FN2020-0025 looks like. 1 Ofc. Etherton: But what I will say is where the shoot -- when the shooting happened, 2 this was not the positioning of the team. 3 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. And I’m not saying it is either. 4 Ofc. Etherton: Oh no, I know, I’m just -- 5 Lt. Villanti: I’m just saying, they had a drone up. 6 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. 7 Lt. Villanti: And these were the only stills that I could get from them. So -- 8 Ofc. Etherton: Uh-huh. 9 Lt. Villanti: But I’m just trying to understand the scene a little bit more. 10 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah, no, I understand. 11 Lt. Villanti: I know how you were saying it had the rolling hills, the concrete yard. 12 Ofc. Etherton: Well, no, because the reason I bring it up is because this looks like 13 this was taken sometime before the shooting, shortly before, but many of the officers had 14 actually moved this way, and another officer had actually moved over here, or a deputy had 15 moved over here. 16 Lt. Villanti: Gotcha. 17 Ofc. Etherton: So there had been a lot of shift change in this position. This position 18 does not reflect what our shooting was. 19 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 20 Sgt. Schafer: This is the berm you’re talking about, one of those metal concrete 21 divider? 22 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. It was that concrete, like, divider. Yeah. 23 Lt. Villanti: Like a K-rail? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 18 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah, like a K-rail. 1 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 2 Ofc. Etherton: But it wasn’t a K-rail, but it was like a K- -- like it didn’t cut off the 3 K-rail. 4 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 5 Sgt. Schafer: Like they temporarily use in the medians. 6 Ofc. Etherton: It was just the, you know, K-rail that was a little bit high because it 7 kind of comes to a point. 8 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. 9 Ofc. Etherton: So if you will, that, like, coming to a point -- 10 Lt. Villanti: They just sawed it off, kind of? 11 Ofc. Etherton: That’s what it looked like. It went -- 12 Lt. Villanti: So where were you guys set up at the time of the shooting then? Not 13 there, you’re saying? 14 Ofc. Etherton: No. We -- a lot of people were right in this area, but other people had 15 moved over to this thing. 16 Lt. Villanti: Oh, got -- from that team? 17 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. Well, from our team and just from the people that were there. 18 I don’t know who moved over here. I know a deputy moved over here. And -- 19 Sgt. Schafer: What’s over there, though? What is that; do you remember? 20 Ofc. Etherton: I have no idea what that thing was. 21 Sgt. Schafer: Was there a cover over there then? Why -- why did everybody move 22 over there? 23 Ofc. Etherton: I have no idea why anyone moved over there. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 19 FN2020-0025 Sgt. Schafer: Okay. 1 Ofc. Etherton: I have no idea. And I know that some people that were over here 2 moved over there. 3 Lt. Villanti: Under the tree? 4 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. Because there was, like, a nice embankment up there, and I 5 have no idea why anyone moved, but I would say that only on this berm right here, if I had to 6 -- if I remember correctly, only one person was still on this -- you can kind of see how there’s 7 a left and a right from my vantage point. 8 Lt. Villanti: Uh-huh. 9 Sgt. Schafer: Yeah. 10 Ofc. Etherton: Like, there’s a split. 11 Sgt. Schafer: Yeah. There’s, like (inaudible) -- 12 Ofc. Etherton: There should have only been one person that was still on that cement 13 cylinder at the time of the shooting. 14 Sgt. Schafer: I’m just -- we’re looking at drone number two photo -- 15 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. 16 Sgt. Schafer: -- pointing at what appears to be, like, three or four people, but you’re 17 saying there’s only one person left at the time -- 18 Ofc. Etherton: Well, this is before the shooting, and then -- 19 Sgt. Schafer: That’s what I’m saying. There’s four or five right now in the photo. 20 Ofc. Etherton: Right. And then they move. 21 Sgt. Schafer: But at the time of the shooting they move. 22 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 23 Sgt. Schafer: (Inaudible.) 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 20 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Before the shooting they move at some point because I was one of 1 those people, and I know I wasn’t there at that position. So -- 2 Lt. Villanti: What was the weather and lighting at the time of the shooting? 3 Ofc. Etherton: It was very hot. There was a breeze or a wind. And it was about ten 4 to 15 miles an hour intermittent that was going from south to north behind us. I would guess 5 the weather was probably about 105, 106. 6 Lt. Villanti: So typical summer day up there? 7 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. It was clear, but hot. You could -- 8 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. 9 Ofc. Etherton: -- almost see the heat on the ground. 10 Lt. Villanti: Coming up? 11 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. So it caused -- it would have caused a little bit of a haze in our 12 scopes at that distance. 13 Lt. Villanti: And what weapon system were you carrying? 14 Ofc. Etherton: I was using an M4 with an aim point, red dot aim point. 15 Lt. Villanti: No magnification? 16 Ofc. Etherton: No magnification. 17 Lt. Villanti: And that’s your SWAT issued rifle? 18 Ofc. Etherton: That is. 19 Lt. Villanti: So there’s no sight picture enhancer on it; it’s just that comp four I think, 20 or whatever they call it with the -- you turn it on, the red dot comes up, it gets brighter and 21 dimmer; right? 22 Ofc. Etherton: Correct. 23 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 21 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Normally our team -- most officers in the Department as being one of 1 the firearms instructors, and part of my responsibility is to zero people’s rifles. Most people’s 2 rifles in the Department have the bee hive on the optic so it stops, kind of, the glare, if you 3 will, from the sunlight. 4 Lt. Villanti: Uh-huh. 5 Ofc. Etherton: I had removed mine because I find that I have a higher visibility 6 without it in there. It gives me a clearer picture, especially at distance. 7 Lt. Villanti: What size in the MOA on that dot? 8 Ofc. Etherton: It’s adjustable, so it would depend on what I was doing that day, and I 9 don’t know what it was that day. 10 Lt. Villanti: Okay. All right. 11 Ofc. Etherton: (Inaudible) probably no idea. 12 Lt. Villanti: So before -- right before the shooting occurs, where are you? Can you -- 13 do you want to mark on -- which one of these would be best to mark on to show us kind of 14 where everybody is from your team and where you are? 15 Ofc. Etherton: I don’t know that any of these would be a clear depiction for me. I 16 mean, I can kind of give you an estimate and kind of maybe change, like -- put some X’s on 17 there or something for you if you’d like. It’s difficult to say. 18 Sgt. Schafer: Yeah. I think you just need to, like -- I think one would probably be 19 the easiest, in my opinion. 20 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. If you can. 21 Ofc. Etherton: One? Right here? 22 Sgt. Schafer: I’m sorry, three. 23 Ofc. Etherton: Three? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 22 FN2020-0025 Sgt. Schafer: I’m looking backwards. I was thinking this was your one. 1 Ofc. Etherton: Oh, okay. 2 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. Three. 3 Sgt. Schafer: I think it will -- just because it zooms in a little bit more, and just ignore 4 the people that are there. 5 Ofc. Etherton: Okay. 6 Lt. Villanti: Just so we have an idea. 7 Sgt. Schafer: Does that make sense? We’re not using that as a reference; we’re just 8 using that as an overall of the area. 9 Ofc. Etherton: Sure. So what is the question? 10 Lt. Villanti: So where is your team, and where are you in relation to -- literally 11 seconds before you shoot? 12 Ofc. Etherton: Oh. Well, can I -- 13 Lt. Villanti: Yeah, yeah, of course. 14 Ofc. Etherton: Do you mind if I put a mark on it? 15 Lt. Villanti: No, no. Help yourself. 16 Ofc. Etherton: Well, this is where our team was primarily at. So there -- I had no 17 idea that these people -- what was going on with these people. I have no idea who was over 18 here. But there was -- before -- when I was in this group, anyways -- I was in this group. I 19 was probably this one or that one; I don’t know which one. I think I was this one right here 20 on the right. So this one and this one leave. I think this guy goes that way, and this one goes 21 that way. So when I came back to the position, because I got up to go retell information to 22 Sgt. Leonard. 23 Lt. Villanti: Where’s Leonard at this point? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 23 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: He’s back here somewhere. 1 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 2 Ofc. Etherton: So I had gone up. And I ran back, and then I saw, as I’m coming 3 back, a bearcat -- or as I’m going there, a bearcat is driving this way. I don’t know 4 (inaudible). 5 Mr. Bauman: Well, just go ahead and note, like, where -- the question was where 6 were you at, like, seconds before the shooting. Yeah. 7 Ofc. Etherton: Oh, seconds before the shooting? Sorry. 8 Mr. Bauman: Just go ahead and mark yourself. 9 Ofc. Etherton: I would estimate that I was somewhere around here, without easily 10 being able to tell. 11 Sgt. Schafer: Yeah. Yeah. It’s not to scale, so -- 12 Ofc. Etherton: Well, it’s hard to tell. I was away from the bearcat, and I was away 13 from anyone that was in front of me. Because I know that Joe from Paso was the only one 14 that was still on this block right here, and he was on the right. And I had given myself enough 15 space where I was still using this block, but there was no one in front of me. 16 Sgt. Schafer: Right. Okay. 17 Lt. Villanti: How far back were you then from that block roughly? 18 Ofc. Etherton: You know, I have no idea. 19 Lt. Villanti: I mean, it’s hard to tell on scale; is it yards, is it feet? Is it -- 20 Ofc. Etherton: If I had to guess, I would say -- yeah. I don’t know. It was so long 21 ago, my best estimation without being there, without having the equipment set up, it would be 22 next to impossible for me. I know that 15 -- 23 [CROSSTALK] 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 24 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: -- about 15 feet would probably be realistic between this and the 1 bearcat, but it’s so hard to tell from the angles. 2 Sgt. Schafer: That’s fine. 3 Lt. Villanti: Well, the SO provided us with some of these photos that it looks like 4 they took with you. 5 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 6 Lt. Villanti: I’m just going to grab this in case I need it. And so maybe this would 7 help reflect your memory. I assume we’re looking at this location? 8 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. That looks vaguely familiar. Part of the problem with this 9 picture, though, was where they put this tape here. So they marked their crime scene, but they 10 marked it too tight. And so I was trying to help them with their investigation. But I wasn’t 11 entirely sure that I was even inside their own crime scene tape. 12 Lt. Villanti: Oh, okay. 13 Ofc. Etherton: I was in that general area, which you can see I’m, like -- I’m pushing 14 the tape back for them. 15 Lt. Villanti: So just -- 16 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. That (inaudible) -- 17 Lt. Villanti: So I know this, these are those K-rails we talked about that were 18 chopped off. 19 Ofc. Etherton: Uh-huh, yeah. 20 Lt. Villanti: And that’s what you were describing that your team was behind? 21 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 22 Lt. Villanti: All right. And then what is that picture there? This looks like -- 23 Ofc. Etherton: This is me. This is where I finished. And that’s how come I knew no 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 25 FN2020-0025 one was directly in front of me, because I finished at this K-rail. So I shot here -- 1 Lt. Villanti: Oh, I gotcha. 2 Ofc. Etherton: -- and walked up -- 3 Lt. Villanti: So you said you started back there 15 feet? 4 Ofc. Etherton: Uh-huh. 5 Lt. Villanti: And that’s where you ended up? 6 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. 7 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 8 Ofc. Etherton: And so then I ended up being there. And I don’t believe I fired any 9 from here. I know that I was moving my way towards that direction. 10 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 11 Ofc. Etherton: But I believe I stopped. So -- 12 Lt. Villanti: So in the pictures, like, if we look at six, nine, seven, seven; that’s a final 13 resting place -- 14 Ofc. Etherton: Right. 15 Lt. Villanti: -- where you deployed your rounds. 16 Ofc. Etherton: And if you look at the shell casings, you would see that, based on my 17 ejection point, that they would kick further right than where I was at. 18 Lt. Villanti: Okay. Well, that makes sense. That helps me understand these pictures 19 a little bit because they just sent them over and I had no reference to them. 20 Sgt. Schafer: If you’re walking, based on your description you -- from where you 21 started, roughly 15 feet -- would you say ten to 15 feet -- 22 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 23 Sgt. Schafer: -- that you’re walking straight ahead to where you ended up? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 26 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 1 Sgt. Schafer: Okay. 2 Lt. Villanti: So they provided us with the shooter position. Let me show you this, 3 and then you can tell me where you think -- 4 Ofc. Etherton: Geez. 5 Lt. Villanti: -- you were as it relates, and where these folks are is -- 6 Ofc. Etherton: Well, first off there, I can already tell you right now that their arrow 7 is incorrect and not properly positioned because Gonzales was on the right side of this. And if 8 you review his body camera, you can see that he’s actually on the right side of that K-rail. 9 That point looks to me like it’s on the left side of the K-rail. 10 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. It looks like it’s showing -- 11 Sgt. Schafer: Yeah. I think I -- yeah. 12 Ofc. Etherton: If anyone thinks differently, please let me know. But that looks like 13 they’re indicating that Gonzales, Joe Gonzales -- that’s his name -- is -- it’s been awhile since 14 I’ve worked with him. 15 Sgt. Schafer: (Inaudible) yeah. 16 Ofc. Etherton: So he -- it shows that he’s on the left, and I think if you look at his 17 body camera it will show you that he was on the right. And if I remember correctly, Clayton -18 - and I’m not entirely sure because I don’t know Clayton that well -- was initially to my left, 19 and same with Kreiger (phonetic) because Kreiger was the one that moved over here to this 20 thing for whatever reason. So -- 21 Sgt. Schafer: I would give those arrows a little bit of grain of salt given they just 22 want to make sure you can see them if they put them all close by each other, they would look 23 like a big blob and you couldn’t (inaudible) -- 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 27 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Oh, okay. Well, they were all pretty far right. So -- 1 Sgt. Schafer: So I think that’s just -- that’s more for -- 2 Ofc. Etherton: That’s my issue with that, thought. 3 Sgt. Schafer: -- alignment of the order, I think they were in. 4 Ofc. Etherton: Okay. 5 Sgt. Schafer: First is specific. I mean, this is a recreation on a picture of a drone. So 6 -- 7 Ofc. Etherton: Sure. I understand that. 8 Sgt. Schafer: -- we’re not saying that he wasn’t where you’re saying he is; we’re just 9 asking -- 10 Ofc. Etherton: Oh. 11 Sgt. Schafer: This necessarily -- what you’re saying is, that’s not accurate that even -12 - that he -- 13 Ofc. Etherton: Well, I would say this is not accurate because based on the picture, 14 they don’t have the arrows in the correct spot. So I don’t think that this is a fair assumption to 15 even talk about because all of these arrows need to be to the right of this cylinder over here. 16 Sgt. Schafer: Okay. Gotcha. 17 Ofc. Etherton: All of them. 18 Lt. Villanti: So this whole team would have been shifted over? 19 Ofc. Etherton: Well, I think it -- I think this is all mostly correct over here, but this is 20 not. 21 Lt. Villanti: (Inaudible.) 22 Ofc. Etherton: And I think that’s a misrepresentation of the facts. 23 Lt. Villanti: And again I -- this was given to us, so we don’t know where they got it 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 28 FN2020-0025 from. 1 Ofc. Etherton: Whether it’s intentional or unintentional, I’m just -- you know? 2 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. 3 Mr. Bauman: Well, it probably was just because, like you said, you can’t put them 4 all together (inaudible) -- 5 [CROSSTALK] 6 Ofc. Etherton: Well, I’m just saying, you can put the arrows together. You can 7 make a circle just like we do in a traffic report and you pointed to it. 8 Sgt. Schafer: (Inaudible) who was in what order. 9 Ofc. Etherton: I understand. 10 Sgt. Schafer: So mainly, I’m -- what I’m -- I guess what I would say is, is this the 11 right order of that ? I can’t even read upside down -- 12 Ofc. Etherton: I have no idea if that’s the right order. 13 Sgt. Schafer: That’s Gonzales or whatever, but based on what your recollection, you 14 said that was Gonzales. And they have Gonzales as the far left person. He’s just, according 15 to the picture -- 16 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. 17 Lt. Villanti: Too far over. 18 Sgt. Schafer: It’s depicted that he’s more left than he actually was. 19 Ofc. Etherton: Correct. Yeah. 20 Sgt. Schafer: That -- that’s not an argument. We’re not arguing that. 21 Ofc. Etherton: Oh. I have no idea. 22 Lt. Villanti: And that’s kind of somewhat close to what you said, like 15 feet 23 backward. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 29 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. I think this is also incorrect where I’m at. Because their arrow 1 puts me behind the bearcat, and I think based on where I did my picture -- 2 Lt. Villanti: Oh. 3 Ofc. Etherton: -- I would have been up further, but -- 4 Sgt. Schafer: Why don’t you mark where that was on that one. 5 Lt. Villanti: Okay. So that’s more 15 feet behind -- that’s probably 30 if you look at 6 the arrow. 7 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. That’s a fourth -- yeah. Uh-huh. Absolutely. So that’s just 8 based off of that. 9 Lt. Villanti: Sure. 10 Ofc. Etherton: And like I said, I would say that this is over here, you know? It’s, 11 like, then that starts that way. Which makes, in my opinion -- it makes a big difference on the 12 picture. 13 Lt. Villanti: Is there anything else that you can help clarify on this still photo for us? 14 Anything you recognize that -- 15 Sgt. Schafer: Will you just draw an arrow so that -- where your X is -- 16 Ofc. Etherton: Uh-huh. 17 Sgt. Schafer: -- to where you walked forward to? Just understand that these are not -18 - pretend nothing else is there. 19 Ofc. Etherton: Sure. I’ll try to do that. 20 Sgt. Schafer: The bodies aren’t there. Those arrows aren’t accurate; we already 21 know that. 22 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 23 Sgt. Schafer: Perfect. Okay. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 30 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: I don’t know where anyone else is. I know Bishop was up there. I’m 1 sorry (inaudible). 2 Sgt. Schafer: It’s there, it’s not really -- yeah. We don’t expect you to remember -- 3 everyone was moving. 4 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. There was a lot of movement going on. 5 Sgt. Schafer: (Inaudible) situation. There’s no expectation. 6 Lt. Villanti: So on June 11th, did you discharge your rifle or handgun? 7 Ofc. Etherton: I discharged my rifle. 8 Lt. Villanti: And when you first -- how many rounds did you deploy or shoot? 9 Ofc. Etherton: I believe I fired somewhere around 14. 10 Lt. Villanti: Okay. And when you first shot your first round, where were you in 11 relation to -- 12 Ofc. Etherton: That would be right where that X is at on the picture. 13 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 14 Ofc. Etherton: In that general area. 15 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. Of course. And what were you carrying; .223 or .556? 16 Ofc. Etherton: I was carrying .556 SBR round Hornady. 17 Lt. Villanti: Department round? 18 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. That’s what I was shooting. And I also did have a .223 green 19 tip armor piercing on my belt. But I didn’t fire that, didn’t load it at all, sir. 20 Lt. Villanti: You didn’t fire any rounds? All right. And what were you shooting at? 21 Ofc. Etherton: I was shooting at Mason Lira’s center mass. 22 Lt. Villanti: And where was Mason Lira at the time? 23 Ofc. Etherton: He was in the vineyard. He had started to kind of cross into -- he had 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 31 FN2020-0025 already crossed into the vineyard itself. So he was in between these bushes somewhere, the 1 green bushes right there. 2 Lt. Villanti: So the vineyards run north-south. So he’s crossing west-east? 3 Ofc. Etherton: He’s crossing east-west. 4 Lt. Villanti: Or moving east-west? 5 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. 6 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 7 Ofc. Etherton: He’s moving towards Ramada Drive, the 101. 8 Lt. Villanti: Okay. How far away was Lira approximately from you? 9 Ofc. Etherton: At the time, I visually estimated 75 yards. 10 Lt. Villanti: And how were you feeling emotionally? 11 Ofc. Etherton: I was fine emotionally. I was just trying to do my job. I was trying 12 to protect my teammates, and protect my partners, protect the public. I felt that I was one of 13 the -- there was a lot of emotions going on that day, and I felt like I was one of the more calm 14 individuals that day, that I was using -- leaning on my experience as an instructor and helping 15 our team try to accomplish our mission, just trying to control the chaos that was going on in 16 our scene. I mean, just the amount of bodies that were there was part of our issue. And I was 17 trying to work that out with our team leader. 18 Lt. Villanti: What was your backdrop? 19 Ofc. Etherton: When I -- what I saw as the backdrop anyways, was a hill that was 20 directly behind him. It looked like -- so there was rolling hills, and it looked like the hill 21 behind him was actually probably about five to six feet tall. It looked like his head was 22 maybe just above it based on where he was walking. And so that was -- what I saw was a big 23 hill behind him so to speak, or a large hill while I would be shooting downwards. So I felt 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 32 FN2020-0025 fairly confident that any rounds that would hit that embankment behind him if anything was 1 missed. It looked like a very clear backdrop. And additionally, it looked like there was 2 nothing that way. And I had also received a picture, text message from Sgt. Pfarr from the 3 command post. And it had been awhile before and I hadn’t received any information since 4 then, but it didn’t depict that there was any containment to what would be our north perimeter. 5 It didn’t look like there was any containment there whatsoever. There was no depiction of a 6 team over there. 7 Lt. Villanti: What about west of him? Because he was going east to west you said? 8 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. He was going east to west. Yeah. There was a house that was 9 fairly close that was to the west of his position. I had no idea if that house had been evacuated 10 or emptied. There was Ramada Drive with tons of businesses. So to the northwest of our 11 position there was -- 12 Lt. Villanti: No containment? 13 Ofc. Etherton: Well, to the northwest of our position, there was no containment that 14 I knew of, and additionally, there was tons of businesses that would have been populated. 15 And then also at that time of day it’s very, very busy on the 101 as well. So in my opinion, 16 there was lots of public safety in the area of concern -- of great concern. 17 Lt. Villanti: And then how did you identify that was Lira from 75 yards away? 18 Ofc. Etherton: I visually saw his clothing description. His hair was very disheveled. 19 He matched the descriptors that we had that day. Everything that I had seen picture-wise, it 20 looked just like him. But then also, I saw a gun in his right hand, a silver gun. It was a 21 revolver from what I could tell, from my training and experience, and years of shooting, and 22 shooting revolvers. The way that the sun glinted off of that revolver, it told me that that was 23 absolutely him in addition to his clothing description and his physical descriptors. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 33 FN2020-0025 Lt. Villanti: And you were say- -- and you’re saying that there was no perimeter on 1 that north side of him? 2 Ofc. Etherton: That I knew of. 3 Lt. Villanti: Or the west side at the time? 4 Ofc. Etherton: The west side, there was, because the blue team -- so this -- you can 5 barely see their bearcat over here. 6 Lt. Villanti: Oh, is that west? 7 Ofc. Etherton: When we -- that’s north. 8 Sgt. Schafer: That’s north. 9 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. 10 Ofc. Etherton: But that’s also west of our posit- -- or east of our position. 11 Lt. Villanti: East. Yeah, yeah. 12 Ofc. Etherton: East of our position. So -- 13 Lt. Villanti: Because he’s crossing this way. 14 Ofc. Etherton: -- as far as I knew, this was the far northern perimeter. 15 Lt. Villanti: Gotcha. 16 Ofc. Etherton: Because every intel that our team had received was that he was in 17 these trees. 18 Lt. Villanti: But northern, he -- they’re still south of him; right? Or almost -- 19 Ofc. Etherton: Well, we’re south of him. 20 Lt. Villanti: I know, but Lira. Isn’t Lira still outside of the perimeter a little bit? It 21 looks like it on this map. So if we’re looking north, this -- is this the bearcat? 22 Ofc. Etherton: That looks like the bearcat. Yes. 23 Lt. Villanti: It does look like the bearcat. And it looks like, based on the map -- or is 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 34 FN2020-0025 this where Lira is supposed to be, not here? 1 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. I have no idea. 2 Lt. Villanti: I can’t tell if Lira was going here or not. 3 Ofc. Etherton: I think it’s supposed to -- I don’t know. 4 Lt. Villanti: Okay. So they might have been -- 5 Ofc. Etherton: I have no idea. 6 Lt. Villanti: -- side by side? 7 Sgt. Schafer: Their locations are -- 8 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. 9 Ofc. Etherton: But I also -- yeah. It was -- anyways, as far as I knew, this was our 10 northern perimeter team. 11 Lt. Villanti: Yup. 12 Ofc. Etherton: Because when we showed up they were here, and we thought the 13 incident was here. So we thought that -- and like I said, I looked down and I saw that bearcat 14 way down that way. So I thought -- our entire team thought the suspect was here, which is 15 why Kemp, and Juan, and Benson were right here completely focused on this area right here. 16 Paso Joe had gone -- or Joe Leonard had gone into this, like, tree area and kind of looked at it 17 with some of these other guys that had shown up. And then we all kind of positioned here. 18 So as far as I knew, there was no one this way, and from the picture that I received from Sgt. 19 Pfarr, had also depicted that there was noth- -- there was no containment that way, if you will. 20 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. When you took your first shot, what was your shooting platform? 21 Ofc. Etherton: Standing. Right handed. 22 Lt. Villanti: And are you right-hand dominant? 23 Ofc. Etherton: I am. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 35 FN2020-0025 Lt. Villanti: And then you took 13, or roughly 13 more follow up shots. 1 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 2 Lt. Villanti: Where were you? 3 Ofc. Etherton: I believe I was in the same exact position. When I teach firearms and 4 training, when I’m moving and I’m shooting, it’s usually at a very slow pace. I think most of 5 the Department can attest to that. I usually move very slowly while firing, unless there’s a 6 need to go forward rapidly. So I’m not sure that I was even moving when I was firing. But I 7 wasn’t sure if I had maybe taken some tiny little steps while I was moving, or position there 8 anyways, not moving. 9 Lt. Villanti: So the entire time you shoot 14 rounds, or approximately 14 rounds in 10 the shooting -- in the standing position, you might have moved two to three feet tops over the 11 course of seconds; right? 12 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. I remember when I got to the wall. And so that’s where some 13 of my -- it’s difficult to remember because I had been up by the time that we got into the 14 shooting, and by the time we got back to the command post in the sky box, and all of those 15 things -- when we were taking our pictures -- when they asked me for the pictures, anyways, it 16 was dark, it was hard to remember exactly where I was at. It had been hours afterwards, and I 17 had been up for, I don’t know how many hours. It was an obscene amount of hours that we 18 were up by the time we took our positionals (sic). Anyway, so I just remember that when I 19 got to the wall here, I took aim one last time because I wasn’t sure if he was -- had stopped 20 yet, and so I took aim at his -- to take a head shot, and I saw that he wasn’t moving. So I 21 came off my trigger and I started yelling for cease fire. So it’s -- I -- in my mind, though, 22 when I was taking the stills or whatever, I just wasn’t sure. I was, like, well, did I shoot as I 23 was walking up the -- I couldn’t quite remember that day. But I believe I was completely 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 36 FN2020-0025 standing or maybe had slightly moved forward just slightly from that position when I was 1 firing. Because I did not -- I did not do that shot from the wall. 2 Lt. Villanti: And when -- every time you fired a round at Mason Lira, was he in a 3 standing position, or was he in any other position? Did he start falling, or -- 4 Ofc. Etherton: While I was firing I was tracking him to the ground. 5 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 6 Ofc. Etherton: So when I first fired, he was walking laterally away from me. And he 7 continued walking. And so while I was firing, I kept my red dot on his center mass, and I 8 fired as he went to the ground. And as he went to the ground, then I continued firing. And 9 I’m not sure at what point I stopped firing. 10 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. 11 Ofc. Etherton: I just know that I tracked him to the ground. I couldn’t tell you how 12 many -- he was standing, or hunched over, or whatever -- 13 Lt. Villanti: I didn’t know if he dropped to a knee for a little while. That’s what I’m 14 asking; did he ever drop to a knee for 20 seconds? 15 Ofc. Etherton: I have -- 16 Lt. Villanti: Or the whole time that you tracked him, it was kind of the fluid motion 17 at the end, falling? 18 Ofc. Etherton: It was a fluid motion. 19 Lt. Villanti: Like, you would think with a curve, somebody was getting hit with 20 rounds? 21 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. It very much depicted. 22 Lt. Villanti: Okay. 23 Ofc. Etherton: It looked like he was taking rounds, and he was going down. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 37 FN2020-0025 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. 1 Ofc. Etherton: But it also looked like he was -- the way that his body turned, it also 2 looked like he was turning to take a shooting prone position at us. So I wasn’t sure if that’s 3 what he was doing, and, you know, there was lots of dust. And his body was moving, and I 4 couldn’t tell if that was bullets hitting him, or if he was -- which is why I -- initially, when I 5 got to the wall, I assessed the situation, and then I assessed that he was not actually still a 6 threat. And that’s when I called the cease fire. 7 Lt. Villanti: How many -- how much time elapsed, do you think, from the beginning 8 of the shooting to the end? 9 Ofc. Etherton: Probably five seconds. 10 Sgt. Schafer: So just confirming, based on what you said earlier with Gonzales over 11 here further to the right, other than what the picture shows, there’s nobody in front of you? 12 Ofc. Etherton: There was nobody in front of me at all. 13 Sgt. Schafer: Do you shoot with both eyes open or just one? 14 Ofc. Etherton: I shoot with both eyes open. Sometimes I’ll shoot with a single eye if 15 I’m looking for a precision shot. So when I took aim for his head, I did close my left eye. 16 But -- 17 Sgt. Schafer: But as you were moving forward, you had both eyes open? 18 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 19 Lt. Villanti: And when you were shooting, were you operating on semi or full auto? 20 Ofc. Etherton: Semi. 21 Lt. Villanti: Do you -- 22 Ofc. Etherton: Full auto would be -- 23 Lt. Villanti: -- have the capability of both? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 38 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, I have the capability of both. But full auto would be extremely 1 reckless at that distance. 2 Lt. Villanti: And was there a forward command post set up at this time? 3 Ofc. Etherton: No, there was no forward command post that was set up. There were 4 people that self-deployed into our active scene that tried to take over the scene that we were 5 working. But to call it a forward command post, I think, is incorrect and improper tactics if 6 we go back to the training that I’ve received at SWAT schools and other incidences that I put 7 forward. I would say that that was a very inappropriate statement to say. 8 Lt. Villanti: Did you ever hear anybody make that statement during this? 9 Ofc. Etherton: I have -- no, not during that. Later, I’ve heard that before, command 10 post. 11 Lt. Villanti: Okay. So in your briefings, in your unit briefings or whatever you want 12 to call them, your team meetings prior to, you never heard anybody say there was a forward 13 command post? 14 Ofc. Etherton: No, I didn’t. 15 Lt. Villanti: (Inaudible) somewhere out here? 16 Ofc. Etherton: No. Well, that would make no sense because based on our training, 17 we teach to have our command post at least several blocks away and at least several turns 18 away so that way they’re in a safe location and don’t insert themselves and make our situation 19 more difficult for us. 20 Lt. Villanti: But with multi-agencies, right, there’s probably four or five here, maybe 21 more? 22 Ofc. Etherton: More than that. We had plain clothes people -- 23 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 39 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: -- in the creek. Night -- 1 [CROSSTALK] 2 Lt. Villanti: And you never had any knowledge of any of those entities having this 3 forward command post? 4 Ofc. Etherton: No, I did not. 5 Lt. Villanti: Were there any civilians or officers in between you and Lira when you 6 deployed rounds? 7 Ofc. Etherton: No, there was not. 8 Lt. Villanti: Do you know if any of your rounds hit Lira? 9 Ofc. Etherton: I have no idea. 10 Lt. Villanti: And when you were calling cease fire, did -- what did your team do? 11 Ofc. Etherton: Other people started shouting for cease fire, and everyone eventually 12 stopped. And then -- 13 Lt. Villanti: And then how did you guys confirm that Lira was deceased or -- what 14 happened next, basically? So you guys just called for a cease fire. 15 Ofc. Etherton: Uh-huh. So next, after the cease fire and everyone stopped, I started 16 our count and condition to make sure our officers on scene were safe. Everyone was safe. 17 And then we heard -- 18 Lt. Villanti: Who started that? 19 Ofc. Etherton: I did. And then I heard over the radio that there had been a separate 20 shooting, and then another separate shooting. And it sounded like one of the shootings was 21 actually behind us when -- where we had originally come from. And so I was thinking as a 22 team, okay, well, we need to, like slow down but also, like, contain ourselves and get 23 ourselves -- there was a lot of people that were talking about it being -- instantly becoming a 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 40 FN2020-0025 crime scene. But I felt that based on the information that we had, we didn’t know if there was 1 other sympathizers with the person. Someone, you know, could have come off the freeway, 2 shot a cop, completely separate from the incident. So I tried to help get our team back into the 3 active mode. And then I was starting to come up with an idea to have the blue team try to 4 approach Lira because they had the K9. And so the K9 would be able to safely approach Lira 5 in case he was just wounded, or playing some sort of game with us, so that way we could 6 safely get to him and then render medical aid to him. But we kind of got -- I don’t know what 7 happened, but we kind of got shut down from all of that. So then eventually someone from 8 the SO went to the scene and -- I have no idea what they did. I -- 9 Lt. Villanti: What’s the scene? 10 Ofc. Etherton: Oh, where Mason was, Mr. Lira. 11 Lt. Villanti: Oh, okay. 12 Ofc. Etherton: I have no idea what they did. 13 Lt. Villanti: How much time did that take? 14 Ofc. Etherton: I have no idea. 15 Lt. Villanti: All right. But you guys were instructed to not go -- 16 Ofc. Etherton: With -- we were -- I was instructed to talk -- go off on the side, “This 17 is a crime scene now,” and I thought that was strange because -- 18 Mr. Bauman: No. That’s fine. 19 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. 20 Lt. Villanti: Who was the closest individual to you when you deployed your rifle, 21 when you shot? 22 Ofc. Etherton: Probably Joe Gonzales from Paso PD. 23 Lt. Villanti: And how close was he to you? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 41 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: I don’t know. Probably ten to 15 feet, but off to the side another four 1 feet, five feet, something like that. 2 Lt. Villanti: Laterally off to the side, or -- 3 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. But if -- not like -- he wasn’t in front of me, but he would be at, 4 you know -- I don’t know how many degrees he would be, but he would -- was not in front of 5 me, especially based on where Mr. Lira was positioned as well. 6 Lt. Villanti: And do you know if any of your operators that were assigned to your 7 team, green team, fired their rifle or duty weapons? 8 Ofc. Etherton: I do know that they did, yes. 9 Lt. Villanti: And was it some of the folks up here? 10 Ofc. Etherton: That also fired their weapon? 11 Lt. Villanti: Uh-huh. 12 Ofc. Etherton: I believe every name that’s on this list fired a -- 13 Lt. Villanti: Okay. A round or two or more? 14 Ofc. Etherton: -- round. A round or two, or yeah. I’m not sure how many. 15 Lt. Villanti: Do you know if the snipers deployed any rounds? 16 Ofc. Etherton: I do. Then I believe that -- I don’t know how many they fired, but I 17 know that everyone on this list fired. 18 Lt. Villanti: Sure. Okay. Do you know what their shooting platform was? 19 Ofc. Etherton: I believe everyone was either kneeling, or prone, or possibly some 20 people on the far right stood up. So everyone was kind of in a lower position. 21 Lt. Villanti: But still on the high ground because Lira was down below -- 22 Ofc. Etherton: Was down below, yes. 23 Lt. Villanti: -- below your grade? 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 42 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Uh-huh. 1 Lt. Villanti: Do you think the standing platform is the best shooting platform? 2 Ofc. Etherton: It was the best shooting platform that was available to me at the time 3 because of his decision. When I decided to fire he was, in my interpretation, turning the gun 4 to fire at me. Is there a more ideal position to fire with more accuracy? Absolutely, there is. 5 I could be right next to him. So, for me, it’s all conjecture because anything else is subjective 6 based on what’s happening. There’s absolutely -- could be a perfect scenario where I have 7 one of my long rifles -- I do long rifle shooting all the time, so one of my bolt action’s would 8 be much better for this scenario, but I was -- I’m not a sniper on the team or anything like 9 that. So I believe that based on the situation, based on the imminent threat to myself and my 10 partners and the public, that that was the best position that was available to me at that time. 11 Lt. Villanti: And if Lira is 75 yards away, and you have this blue team? 12 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, blue team. Thanks. 13 Lt. Villanti: Blue team is fairly close to him, according to this depicted picture -- I 14 mean, a lot closer than your team. 15 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 16 Lt. Villanti: And team members in front of you, do you think your shot was a safe 17 shot to take? 18 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, I do. 19 Lt. Villanti: And do you think it was necessary? 20 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, I do. 21 Lt. Villanti: Do you think if you didn’t take it, that somebody else might have not 22 been able to resolve the situation? 23 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. I felt that my actions were necessary to stop the threat. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 43 FN2020-0025 Mr. Bauman: Do you feel like the threat from Lira was imminent, so you took that 1 shot? 2 Ofc. Etherton: I did. 3 Lt. Villanti: Is -- so we have a squad here and a squad here; right? So we would 4 probably have, I mean, honestly 15 shooters; right? 5 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. But this team that’s over here wouldn’t be able to see him at 6 all. 7 Lt. Villanti: How come? 8 Ofc. Etherton: Because this was a very elevated berm. 9 Lt. Villanti: And they were on the other side of it? 10 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. And they were on the other side of it. So they couldn’t get 11 their bearcat up it. 12 Lt. Villanti: Oh, okay. This looks flat to me in the picture. That’s why I’m asking. 13 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. It’s not flat at all; it’s very elevated. It’s almost the same level 14 as this, in fact. 15 Mr. Bauman: This being your -- 16 Ofc. Etherton: Our position. Our high ground position. And so -- and you can’t see 17 from this picture, but it’s probably another couple hundred yards before the bearcat can get 18 around to get onto that surface road. 19 Lt. Villanti: So your team, really, and then I guess the folks back here, Hodell 20 (phonetic) and -- 21 Ofc. Etherton: Kreiger. 22 Lt. Villanti: Kreiger is with you guys, or (inaudible) -- 23 Ofc. Etherton: He’s with us. Yeah. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 44 FN2020-0025 Lt. Villanti: And Bywater, these guys are really the only ones that are going to see 1 him, see Lira, because this berm is 25 feet, or 20 feet, or whatever that is. 2 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. They couldn’t see him. Correct. 3 Lt. Villanti: Okay. That makes sense. And it’s here, this one dimension it’s hard to 4 understand the terrain layout. 5 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. Topography is an interesting topic. 6 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. Since this incident, have you attempted to recreate any of your -- 7 or to recreate this shooting? 8 Ofc. Etherton: In, like, a training scenario, or -- 9 Lt. Villanti: Uh-huh. 10 Ofc. Etherton: I have, yes. 11 Lt. Villanti: And what were the results of that? 12 Ofc. Etherton: Very positive. I went out to our Department range. I later found out 13 that Mr. Lira was approximately 110 yards away. So I went out to our Department range and 14 found an elevation that looked -- it was similar up on our hillside, on a stationary target. And 15 I posted up a target, and I gave myself five seconds. And I had worked up my heart rate while 16 doing it to try to mimic as much adrenaline as possible. And I went up there and I fired 14 17 rounds in five seconds. And the results were very good for me. I had 14 shots on paper, on 18 our ID (inaudible) targets that our Department uses for our annual qualifications with our 19 handguns. Not all of them were in the ten-ring. But they were all on what would be the sides 20 of the human body, which is what that paper target is to depict. 21 Lt. Villanti: So looking through your aim, probably -- would you say 115 yards; is 22 that what it ended up being for the shot to Lira? 23 Ofc. Etherton: I think they said it was 110 yards or something like that. 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 45 FN2020-0025 Sgt. Schafer: Is that what you used when you trained -- you did the walk through that 1 you just described? 2 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 3 Sgt. Schafer: You used 110, not 75 like you originally thought? 4 Ofc. Etherton: Correct. 5 Lt. Villanti: And your Department issued gun, same one, same equipment? 6 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. Same position, platform shooting. 7 Lt. Villanti: How big was your red dot on Lira? Did it cover his body? Did it cover 8 his body? You know, obviously as the -- 9 Ofc. Etherton: No. No, it did not. Because -- yes. As it gets further away -- 10 Lt. Villanti: It gets larger. 11 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. I had my setting as low as it could possibly be in the lighting 12 condition. Based on my training and experience, I know that the brighter you turn the light, 13 the more difficult the shot can be. But also, during the day time, you need enough brightness 14 to be able to see your dot, which is one of the reasons why I removed the beeswax, so I have a 15 better, clearer picture. And so I had it on the smallest setting possible. And so on the day of 16 the shooting, it was easily identifiable on his middle of his chest, or what would be his chest 17 area, his center mass area. Without obstructing, I was able to see the rest of this body, or the 18 rest of his upper body or what have you. I was able to clearly put down a small portion. 19 Lt. Villanti: Okay. Could you have taken the shot from a different platform, like 20 kneeling or prone? Or would you have -- based on the topography, would you have been able 21 to see Lira? 22 Ofc. Etherton: I would have been able to see him kind of kneeling. Prone, I 23 probably would not have been -- I would have been able to see him, but probably would not 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 46 FN2020-0025 have been able to fit him because of the slope. The elevation change would not have allowed 1 me to do that. Kneeling would have been very difficult to hit him. In fact, standing made it -- 2 to change that angle into a more downward direct angle, helped me greatly. 3 Lt. Villanti: Do you think you put any operator or civilian in peril when you took 4 your shots? 5 Ofc. Etherton: No, I do not. 6 Lt. Villanti: And based on your training and experience -- I mean, you have a lot of 7 training; active shooter training -- 8 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 9 Lt. Villanti: -- firearms instructor. Let’s see what else you -- FTO. You have SWAT 10 training where you put on training for SWAT members. 11 Ofc. Etherton: Yeah. 12 Lt. Villanti: Do you think that the deploying of your rifle, shooting at Lira in that 13 platform at your location where you were based on where your team members were was the 14 best choice? 15 Ofc. Etherton: Yes, I do. Furthermore, if we’re going to discuss my training, in my 16 trainings, I also forgot to mention that I train at Camp San Luis where I teach in service 17 officers and military members as well. But we also teach in a lot of those trainings that I’ve 18 been to, different positions trainings. And so often times when we are at our Department 19 range, it’s a static range shooting but that’s not how it is in real life scenarios. So that’s why 20 at some of the higher trainings I’ve been to, we actually have very dynamic different angles. 21 In fact, we shoot -- in our own team, we shoot -- and I’ve put on the trainings where we shoot 22 in similar angles where people are in front of me without being in front of me. But also, we 23 do scenarios where we use simunitions round where people actually -- the suspect will move 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 47 FN2020-0025 in front of those different angles so then now you have to know what’s -- what we call priority 1 of shot. Well, priority of shot based on this scenario on a close range would put the front 2 person as having the priority shot. But we as a team all the time have staggering shooting 3 positions. If we’re in a hallway, you know, there’s a right door and a left door, and someone 4 jumps out, that -- we shoot -- we teach both people to shoot in that situation. So I would say 5 that based on my training and experience, I was doing exactly what I have been trained to do 6 while also making sure I was very conscientious of my partners and their location. Just like 7 we also teach our operators because our job is inherently dangerous -- we teach our operators 8 to also act appropriately and not do things that will cause them stress. So for example, when 9 we shoot over someone -- 10 Mr. Bauman: I think you answered. 11 Lt. Villanti: Yeah. That’s good. 12 Ofc. Etherton: Okay. 13 Lt. Villanti: Thanks, Robert. 14 Ofc. Etherton: Sorry. 15 Lt. Villanti: So based on what you recall on the day of the incident of shooting Lira 16 and the positions that you remember them -- your team and the other folks that self-deployed, 17 which are obviously not necessarily deployed correctly on this map, if somebody were to 18 stand up -- because you said these guys were all kneeling -- would that have put them in peril 19 based on your shot? 20 Ofc. Etherton: No, it would not. 21 Lt. Villanti: And this is -- goes back to what you were just speaking of on your 22 training, and understanding the angles, and even though somebody may be in front of you, 23 you still have an angle to protect them -- 24 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 48 FN2020-0025 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. 1 Lt. Villanti: -- if something was to occur with their action where you would -- 2 Ofc. Etherton: Yes. Absolutely. And not to mention, the direction that Lira was 3 moving, which was westbound, I mean -- yeah, westbound. He would be moving away from 4 all of the officers except for Kreiger. But Deputy Kreiger was quite a ways away from 5 everyone else. So as he’s moving this way, my direction of firing is also moving. 6 Lt. Villanti: Sure. 7 Ofc. Etherton: Away from them as well. So that angle as I’m shooting is actually 8 getting better and better for me. 9 Lt. Villanti: Do you have anything else, partner? 10 Sgt. Schafer: No. 11 Lt. Villanti: Do you have anything else you want to add? 12 Ofc. Etherton: No. 13 Lt. Villanti: All right. 14 Mr. Bauman: Sir. 15 Lt. Villanti: Okay. Well, this will conclude the interview with Ofc. Blake Etherton, 16 and it is 11:51. 17 (END OF RECORDING) 18 19 20 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 49 FN2020-0025 1 2 San Luis Obispo Police Dept. 50 FN2020-0025 1