HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/22/1983City Council Minutes
Tuesday, March 22, 1983 - 7:00 p.m.
Page 2
City Staff
Present: Paul Lanspery, Administrative Officer; Geoff Grote,
Assistant Administrative Officer; Wayne Peterson, City
Engineer; Mike Dolder, Fire Chiefs Roger Neuman, Police
Chief; Dave Romero, Public Works Director; Al Tilton,
Engineering Assistant; Sharon Turner, recording secretary
1. MURRAY STREET
Geoff Grote, Assistant Administrative Officer, briefly reviewed the
Council agenda report (file no. 462) and stated that the Engineering
Division had prepared a presentation that consisted of: 1) a slide
presentation of the area, i.e. Murray Street, Broad Street and Chorro
Street, to further acquaint the City Council of the particular physical
layout of the area; 2) engineers will present the results of their
studies regarding traffic volumes and traffic patterns in this area; 3)
• detailed description of each of the alternatives will be discussed and
• map will be used to show how the alternatives will impact the city and
what they consist of. He stated the residents felt it was very important
to remember this neighborhood is a place where people reside and make
their lives, and the quality of life issue is paramount. Staff has
tried to keep in mind that the neighborhood as a whole is more than just
one street and displacement of traffic from one street to another could
possibly have adverse effects on the quality of life in the neighborhood.
Al Tilton, Engineering Assistant, gave a slide presentation showing some
of the existing conditions in the Murray Street area. He stated the
residents petitioned initially for relief from excessive traffic.condi-
tions and later proposed to have Murray Street closed at the.intersec-
tion of Murray and Broad Streets, Benton Way remaining open. The Murray
Street residents had proposed a cul -de -sac at Broad Street leaving
Benton open and Chorro Street open and moving the current stop signs at
Murray Street -to Serrano. He stated that under current subdivision .
regulations this cul -de -sac as proposed would be substandard.. Staff
recommendation at this time would be to remove the stop signs on Broad
Street at Murray and augment their removal with the installation of
speed humps; speed humps are approximately 12 -feet wide and 3- inches
high and.'would be placed 100 to 150 feet from an intersection. This is
a unique feature which allows a driver to experience more discomfort
when moving fast. He then showed charts showing the volumes and patterns
of traffic as they exist in this area and how that volume relates to
certain times of day. On Murray Street in the east bound direction,
there was a slight peak in the morning, i.e. people going to work; in
the evening west bound traffic peaking at about 5:00 p.m. The Engineering
Division, with the aid of the Murray Street residents, conducted a
survey stopping cars traveling on Murray Street to find out where they
were going. People heading west bound were going primarily to the
residential area south of Foothill Blvd. from the downtown area. People
heading east bound were coming from the residentail area south of
Foothill Blvd. and going downtown to work or shop.
Al Tilton then went through several alternatives proposed by staff:
1) Close Murray Street at the intersection of Broad Street. The
primary consideration would be the impact upon the residents of
Meinecke, Mission, and Broad Streets.
2) Close Murray Street and other parallel streets (Meinecke, Mission;
Center, and Mountain View) at Broad Street. This would tend to back
up traffic in all directions at the intersection of Lincoln and
Chorro during peak rush hours.
3) Close Serrano and Ramona Drives at Broad Street. This would remove
some of the traffic which is using Murray Street and proceeding
south on Chorro. The adverse effects in other areas would be
increased traffic on Tassajara, Foothill, Chorro and Broad.
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City Council Minutes
Tuesday, March 22, 1983 - 7:00 p.m.
Page 3
4) Realign Chorro and Broad Streets at their intersection with Foothill
Boulevard (and alter the signalization at that point). By extending
Chorro to a "T" intersection and realigning north Chorro to Broad
and making two intersections, the capacity will be increased and
also the workability of the two intersections. The effect would be
to encourage the use of Broad Street. This would most likely
increase traffic on Murray Street and some of the other cross
streets.
' S)
Close Broad Street at Foothill Boulevard. This would make the
intersection of Chorro and Foothill work better. It would also
prevent the volume of traffic entering in from Foothill, crossing
over Murray and proceeding down Chorro. It would block residents on
north Broad who wish to shop or go to Cal Poly.
6)
Extend Palomar Street which would serve to connect Ferrini and
Foothill Boulevard to Ramona and Palomar. This would allow those
people living in this area ready access to Foothill Boulevard and
Santa Rosa. This may require the.signalization of the intersection
on Ferrini Road and increase the volumes of traffic on Ferrini Road
because the student housing would then have almost a direct route to
Highland Drive at Santa Rosa Street to Cal Poly or Cuesta College.
7)
Remove stop signs on Broad Street at Murray and augment the removal
of the signs with speed humps on Broad Street to slow and control
the extra traffic on Broad Street. The effect may increase traffic
on Broad Street while reducing traffic on Murray Street slightly.
8)
Develop a series of one -way streets in the neighborhood with Broad
Street being southbound, Chorro being northbound, and connecting
streets (i.e., Murray, Mission, Meinecke) alternating in a one -way
pattern. •The.effect on Murray Street.:would?.probably reduce its
traffic in:half; approximately,3;600 to around 2;000 vehicles a day.
It would dramatically decrease the volumes of traffic on Chorro;
however, increasing traffic on Broad Street.
9)
Make:no changes to the existing traffic patterns or traffic control
devices at this time:
10) Another alternative would be to close Broad Street between Ramona
and Meinecke. The effect of this would essentially block the
Tassajara residential area from use of Broad Street via Ramona,
forcing traffic out to-Foothill. It would reduce traffic on Murray
and Meinecke Streets; however, in staff's opinion the only other
logical route to be taken from this area to the downtown would be
Ramona to Palomar, Palomar to Serrano, Broad to Mission and cut over
to Chorro Street. There - would -also be a decrease of traffic from
Serrano to Meinecke on Broad Street and an•increase of traffic on
Broad Street south of Serrano.
Staff was recommending• alternative no. 7 - to remove stop signs on Broad
Street at Murray and place speed humps on Broad Street-to slow-and .
control the extra traffic on Broad.
Geoff - Grote, Assistant Administrative Officer, briefly summed up the
engineering report and stated estimated costs were anywhere from $4;200
to $1;100,000. Staff.has concluded that the alteration:of traffic
patterns in this area would cause some displacement from one street to -
another. Staff.had attempted to mitigate.this-altered traffic pattern
through the use of an experimental traffic control device; i.e., speed
humps. He stated if Council wishes to pursue the concept of speed
humps, the city would have to petition the State for permission to use
them. They have been used experimentally in other cities, i.e., City of
Thousand Oaks. It is expected that the State will approve.the experimental
program.• :Staff:would -report back on the speed humps, if implemented, to
determine if the method is working. He stated that Al Tilton, Wayne
Peterson, and himself were available for any questions.
City Council Minutes
Tuesday, March 22, 1983 - 7:00 p.m.
Page 4
Councilman Settle questioned the Fire and Police Chiefs if they had any
comments relative to alternative no. 10, i.e., closing Broad at Ramona,
for emergency purposes.
Roger Neuman, Police Chief, stated with regard to partial closing of the
street, their experiences have been that if Police cars can go across,
others cars can go across too.
Mike Dolder, Fire Chief, stated the partial closing of this area would '
greatly reduce Fire Station 2 response time from Chorro on Foothill as
both Broad and Chorro are prime response streets €or getting to-the
residential areas. If you close any portion of the street it causes an
extended delay in maneuvering traffic.
Councilman Settle stated that more traffic should be on Chorro Street
rather than Broad because Chorro is more of a collector street.
Councilman Griffin was impressed with staff labors in trying to identify
practical solutions but there were no real discussions of the potential
solutions as to how they relate to the current Circulation Element. He
felt that was a significant part of the approach and should be a basic
policy used by Council in addressing any solution to the problem.
Geoff.Grote, Assistant Administrative Officer, stated the current
Circulation Element designates Murray as a local street, Broad as a
collector street and Chorro as an arterial street. He stated that the
studies on traffic volume show that although Murray Street is designated
as a local street, it carries many more cars than most local or residential
streets,.i.e. Meinecke Street. The recommendation from staff had been
to transfer some of the cars from the designated local street to collector
and arterial streets. He stated that Broad Street, designated as a
collector, seems to be consistent with the Circulation Element in that
it has less traffic flow and volume than Chorro Street which is an
arterial.
Al Tilton, Engineering Assistant, stated that Murray Street acts as a
collector. It would be logical to put most of the volume of Murray
Street traffic onto Chorro or Broad without affecting other local
streets.
Geoff Grote stated that in past Circulation Elements Murray Street was
designated as a collector street but did change with latest revisions to
local. He felt that staff recommendation was consistent with the
Circulation Element.
Wayne Peterson, City Engineer, stated staff's recommendation was consi-
stent with the Circulation Element (see page 3 and 17 of the March 1982
Circulation'Element) in that we provide a system of streets that are
well maintained and safe for all forms of transportation and promote
safe operation of all modes of transportation. He stated staff would
continue to operate safe streets in that neighborhood. He stated the
overall objectives were: 1) Ensure that existing streets are fully used
before widening is considered; 2) manage traffic so that it is concen-
trated on arterial streets and thoroughfares and is not dispersed
throughout residential areas; 3) undertake street projects only when
they improve safety and traffic flow for all types of transportation and
do not cause significant environmental problems; 4) establish a system
of truck routes that avoid residential areas, and enforce the use of
this system; and 5) ensure that any circulation project solution, major
or minor, must provide for the mitigation of adverse impacts on all
residential neighborhoods.
Councilwoman Dovey questioned Al Tilton if the traffic volumes on
Lincoln had been studied as to where it comes from and also asked for
clarification on what residential area was referenced in alternative no.
10.
Al Tilton, Engineering Assistant, stated that Lincoln Street gets a
great deal of traffic around rush hour coming up on Chorro Street from
City Council Minutes
Tuesday, March 22, 1983 - 7:00 p.m.
Page 5
downtown and crossing over to get onto the southbound freeway. The
remainder of the traffic primarily comes off the freeway and heads
downtown. He stated that most of the traffic is coming from'the downtown
and is not neighborhood traffic. With regard to alternative no. 10, the
area is essentially south of Foothill but west of Broad Street and
consists of Luneta, Serrano,.Ramona, Verde Drive, Tassajara, and as far
out as La Entrada.
' Dave Romero, Public Works Director, stated the problem on Murray Street
is a direct result of actions made by Council a few years ago to place
four stop signs -on Broad and two stop signs on Chorro. This discouraged
traffic on Broad so motorists trying to get through avoid that portion
of Broad because of all the stops and find an easier route. Murray is
the first stop on Broad from the north and is a nice route to take to
Chorro. He stated that staff's recommendation is to eliminate some of
the stop signs on Broad and put some of the traffic back onto Broad
where the Circulation Element says it should be.
Councilman Settle stated the cul- de- sacing of Murray is not consistent .
with the Circulation Element because it would defer and move traffic
onto other residential streets and aggravate the problem somewhere else.
Mayor.Billig stated she would like to hear the public comment on the
overall situation and not to assume the Council has any predisposition
towards any one of the alternatives.
Mayor Billig opened the discussion for public comment.
U.D. Torrance, 77 Highland Drive, commended staff for a very fine
presentation and stated the best solution would be to take down the stop
signs and open Broad Street. He stated the cul -de -sac on Murray would
be somewhat discriminatory. „
Jenny Hiltel, 859 Murray Street, stated that the people on Murray Street
who have the greatest concern are people on the 700 block. The people
on the 800 block are not as concerned because they do not have the same
kind of problems. There is a difference of opinion between the two .
blocks because of the volumes of traffic, and it would help if people
speaking tonight would state what block of Murray.they:liveion.
Robert Froman, 378 Chorro Street, was concerned with the speed of
traffic on his street. He would like to see speed humps between the
stop signs of Chorro and Murray and Chorro and Lincoln. Hey stated the
distance between the stops at Lincoln and Murray give cars a chance to
pick up speed.
Jon Jenkins, 740 Murray Street, appreciated Mr.,Griffin's comments with
regard to consistency with the Circulation Element and would hope the
Council would keep that principle in mind when they make their decision.
He felt there is a natural inclination .to focus on quantity of traffic
rather that quality of traffic because it can be quantified. He would
hope the question of quality is addressed because he felt that was the
biggest-problem. He felt the removal of stop signs on Broad Street may
shift traffic onto Broad; however, it doesn't address the problem of
reckless drivers. He referenced Mr. Nemeth's letter and stated he
indicated there was no factual evidence of reckless driving which is one
of the items the residents listed in their original complaint. However,
in the letter Mr. Nemeth's stated "it is:unknown what problems exist -
1 during.the evening hours." He stated that most truck driving occurs
during-these evening hours. With regard to:destruction of city property,
he stated-a street sign and two trees were run over since the Murray
Street issue was last discussed. With regard to alternative no. 10, he
questioned Mr. Tilton as to why the residents of the Ramona area would
not.choose,to take a short jump:at Broad Street towards Foothill and
shift,from.there to .the designated arterial Chorro Street or proceed
onto the.State Highway 1, Santa Rosa - Street. Finally, he -would hope
there would be an enforcement of.truck routes.
City Council Minutes
Tuesday, March 22, 1983 - 7:00 p.m.
Page 6
Barry France, 79 Benton Way, agreed with Mr. Jenkins with regard to
noise, etc. Noise is a constant problem in the area, both from truck
traffic and local midnight student parties. There is no reason for
trucks leaving the commercial area.on Broad to use Murray Street. There
is a constant problem with the trucks pruning the trees far above the
9 -foot limit. He also agreed with Mr. Romero's observation that instal-
lation of the stop signs on Broad Street has greatly increased the --
traffic on Murray Street. He felt the removal of at least a portion of
the stop signs on Broad Street would greatly increase the use of Broad
Street as a collector. He had some concerns with the speed humps and
questioned their popularity with the Engineers in that they have not
been thoroughly approved and are still experimental. He questioned if
the speed humps were to be placed on Broad Street, would this not still
encourage people to continue to use Murray.
Joannie Walker, 69 Chorro Street, was concerned with the speed of
traffic on Chorro. She has a 7 -year old child and was concerned about•
other children playing in the area. She stated there were no safe
places.to cross and felt .there should be crossing guards or-someth_ing to
help- pedestrians cross.the road safely.
-
Jacob Feldman, 711 Murray Street, stated there were only two real
options before Council, one would be to close off Murray and Meinecke,
leaving the stop signs on Broad so not to sacrifice it, or to do nothing.
He felt the alternative of putting in-the speed:humps was going to be a
source of frustration and hostility for drivers, not to mention dangerous.
He felt removing a stop sign and putting in two speed humps would not
really change traffic patterns. He urged Council to make their decision
in support of quality of the neighborhoods.
Katherine Froman, 300 block of Chorro Street., stated she had lived there
for 10 years and before the stop signs on Chorro and Broad and there had
been a great improvement. She stated before the stop sign at Lincoln
and Chorro,.it was dangerous to cross the street. She stated Chorro 1
Street is still a neighborhood and urged Council for some controls.
Edward Weant, 844 Murray Street, complimented staff on the excellent job
of surveying. He was concerned with the motorcycles that gun to go up
the hill at Chorro. He was not in favor of closing off-the end of
Murray Street with a cul -de -sac.
Alice Jenkins, 740 Murray Street, favored alternative no. 7. She stated
it would reduce some of the traffic on Murray and give some traffic to
Broad to equalize the traffic problem.
Dean Kinneavy, 265 Broad Street, stated he had lived in the area for 35
years, and it is a lovely.place to live. He stated that his son had
been hospitalized from being.hit by a car before the stop signs were put
in. He didn't feel the speed humps would solve the problem but rather
increase the problems on Broad Street.
Gail Jacobson, 156 Broad Street, stated she had lived there for eight
years and her observation has been that few .people stop at the stop.sign
at Broad and Murray. She stated that Murray Street is exceedingly loud.
She stated it was not the number of cars necessarily, but the speed of
cars and the quality of the drivers.
Don Hubber, 100 block of Broad Street, believed that a couple of the
studies suggested that the diversion of traffic on Murray is primarily,
due to people avoiding the delay of the light at Chorro and Foothill and
Broad. He stated there should be some investigation into alternative
no. 6.
Mrs. Boriack, 172 Broad Street, questioned Mr. Romero if Broad Street -
was a substandard street. She was concerned with the trucks coming off
and on the freeway. She stated that the area from Serrano to Foothill
is mostly student housing, and is very concentrated with cars. She
stated she wouldn't let her grandchildren play in her front yard because
of the speed of cars going down the street. She was not in favor of
City Council Minutes
Tuesday, March 22, 1983 - 7:00 p.m.
Page 7
closing off Murray because it is the only street that goes all the way
across to Santa Rosa, i.e. to Sierra Vista Hospital. She also felt the
curve on Mission and Broad was too sharp of a curve.
Dave Romero, Public Works Director, replied that collector streets
should be 40 feet curb -to -curb but most of Broad Street is 34 feet.
curb -to -curb.
' Bernice Parsons, 199 Chorro Street, stated that.if any of the streets
are closed whether it is Murray, Mission or Center, it will just shift
the problem-into another part of the neighborhood. She stated if
Council does go with the speed humps and-find that they work, they
should be placed on Chorro Street as well. She stated that within the
six years she had been here, there had been at least one serious injury
accident per year in front of her house.' She stated if she had children,
she would not live on this street; it is too dangerous.
Thelma Newton, 185 Broad Street, felt putting more traffic on Broad
Street would create a problem at Mission because even with the stop
sign, there are still numerous accidents. She'also felt putting in
speed humps would create a bigger problem. She agreed with Mrs. Boriack
with regard to the sharp curve on Mission and Broad.
Dave Krumpe, 745 Murray Street, stated he hadn't heard any discussion on
the cul= de- sacing of Murray at Broad and the ability of emergency
vehicles.to cross over a.barrier of certain size. He would like to hear
that addressed. He also agreed with the other neighbors that noise and
dangerous.driving were the biggest problems; not so much quantity of
traffic. He also felt the trucks were a problem. He questioned the
validity of the traffic survey done by city staff and Murray Street
residents in that the radio station had broadcasted the survey and,
because of.this,.people avoided this area. They were also late-in
setting up the equipment for the survey so the , student -traffic was.
missed.. He felt the traffic signals at Broad and Foothill and Chorro
and Foothill needed to be adjusted.
Dave Romero, Public Works Director, responded that if barriers were
constructed in such a way that emergency vehicles could cross easily,
then there.would be a number of other vehicles that could also cross it.
It would have to be a barrier that could be taken down with a key of
some kind, and he felt this would create an intolerable delay for
Police, Fire or ambulance.
Charles Woodman, 129 Broad Street, agreed somewhat with Mrs. Boriack and
Mrs. Jacobson's comments. He stated.he had lived there since 1954. He
was concerned with the trucks that use Broad Street. He stated that
when the students leave parties on a "T.G.I.F." night; they ignore stop
signs and speed limits. He didn't think that the speed humps would do
the job. He stated if the stop signs were taken off of Chorro at
Murray,.there would not be the traffic on Murray, but by doing this, the
speed would be increased on Chorro so either way it's no good.
Ralph..Jacobson, 156 Broad Street, felt:using Serrano as an alternate
route was useless. He felt nobody would take that route more than once.
He-felt..that Murrayrwas more than just a cross street to Chorro;.it is
also a.way.of,getting - over to Santa-Rosa.- Meinecke would never take
that traffic-because it is difficult to see. .He• stated rather than
encourage people to.go in this direction or that direction, discourage
everybody from driving:too.fast.:,He was also -in favor-of-putting speed
humps. -.on Chorro Street as well.
Moor Billig closed hearing to public comments.
Councilwoman Dovey agreed that people would probably not.take Serrano as
an alternative route, especially coming from the Tassajara area. People
from.the.- Ramona area might.come down Broad.or might take Serrano if they
live west of- :Palomar but that wouldn't be.very many people. She stated
that when Ramona was opened up to Broad; a-lot of the problem occurred
and also -more student housing was built there. She felt the signals on
City Council Minutes
Tuesday, March 22, 1983 - 7:00 p.m.
Page 8
Foothill certainly cause a problem because most people will take an
easier route to avoid them. She felt Chorro was a problem and stated
humps should be placed-on Chorro as well as Broad to slow down the
traffic. Truck routes should be enforced and signs should be up so they
know where they are supposed to go. She also felt allowing traffic on
Broad and putting humps in to slow them down would be as much of an
inconvenience as stop signs and traffic will still turn onto Murray to
avoid the humps. Basically, the problem is people are using routes that
they shouldn't be using. To be consistent with the Circulation Element, 1
neighborhood streets should remain neighborhood streets and all Council
actions should be directed toward getting traffic to.go on designated
streets. With regard to speed,.the State law states that we must post
the speed limit.that is geared to the traffic flow; that is, if everyone
drives 40 mph., than you can't post a speed limit any lower than 40 mph.
The traffic is supposed to go 25 mph. so it is posted 25 mph. and stop
signs are put in to slow traffic. When people start going too fast when
the limit is legally posted, they are liable to change their habits if
they are ticketed enough times. If the problem on Murray Street seems
to be excessive traffic flow, than .let's put that traffic back where it
belongs, i.e. Foothill, Santa Rosa and Chorro to some extent if they are
going to and from downtown: .
Councilman Settle was concerned primarily with preservation of the
neighborhood. He was in favor of- experimenting with .:speed humps,_ not
only on Broad but on.Chorro as well.and felt-putting the.humps:in: south
of Murray would defeat.the purpose. He felt the removal of stop signs
would encourage more traffic flow on Broad but felt it would not neces-
sarily slow traffic at crucial intersections. He felt the double light
at Foothill was a continuing problem because most people would not go
all the way across Palomar to Serrano and down Broad if the signals were
sequenced at Foothill. If Council goes with staff recommendations, he
would like to see a subsequent analysis as far as noise, speed and the
amount of traffic on Murray. Whatever is done in one area shouldn't
create.an overflow in another. He was in favor of alternate no..7 and 1
would like to see greater detail with reference to some modifications on
Buchon, Chorro and the relationship with the double stop light on
Foothill.
Councilman Dunin was concerned with noise and dangerous drivers which go
hand in hand. He was not in favor of closing Murray Street because it
would create a problem on another street and would also delay police and
fire response times. He was supportive of reducing speed, especially on
Murray, the removal of stop signs on Broad and Murray and placing speed
humps on Broad and Chorro Streets. He felt.this way.all:the• streets .
would .be treated the same, therefore, no conflicts would arise. He.
would like to see truck routes.enforced and signs placed notifying.
drivers of speed enforced by radar. He would also like to see more
police patrols on Broad; Chorro and Murray.
Councilman Griffin stated we should be.consistent with the Circulation
Element in preserving the quality of the neighborhood. He didn'•t want
to cause any problems with the neighbors disagreeing with each other.
He was supportive of a three -point approach: 1) Need to look at recon-
figuration or resetting traffic.signals at Foothill, Broad and Chorro; 2)
would like to-see an analysis on a partial barrier on Broad Street at
Ramona that would prohibit eastbound traffic on Ramona from turning
south onto Broad; 3) would like to see an analysis in the problem area
of stop sign reconfigurations and /or removal. He would also like to see
some innovative approaches to police patroling and speed limitations
that could include speed humps on Chorro and Broad. He would like to
see these three points addressed.
Mayor Billig thanked the people in the audience for coming and bringing
out a lot of points that Council needed to hear. She stated there are
many similar neighborhoods in the community with similar problems,
although she recognizes their problem as being unique because of the
location. When the Council adopted the Circulation Element, they made
specific statements about policies regarding the preservation of neighbor-
hoods and expect staff to look at that very consistently when they make